Lazarus Lake on the Beauty of Pain, Failure and Pushing the Human Spirit

Lazarus Lake (real name Gary Cantrell) is the mind behind the most punishing endurance challenge on Earth: the Barkley Marathons. A race that isn’t meant to be finished — it’s meant to reveal you.

In this powerful and surprising conversation, Sam Penny sits down with Laz to explore why he designs races destined for failure, how suffering unlocks growth, and why life’s meaning is buried deep in discomfort.

It’s not a conversation about running. It’s about fear. Grit. Psychology. Purpose. Why people willingly show up to suffer in the woods with no map, no fame, no prize — just to prove something to themselves. And how Laz, a chain-smoking philosopher in denim, became the high priest of pain-fuelled personal evolution.

Meet the Man Who Made Pain His Playground

Laz didn’t set out to create legends. He just hated how predictable racing had become — splits, pacing, medals, sponsors. So he broke all the rules. No aid stations. No spectators. No signage. No digital anything. Just the woods, a map, and time that isn’t your friend.

His creation, the Barkley Marathons, became myth. Runners wander in circles, tear book pages from hidden checkpoints, and hope not to get lost in the Tennessee fog. Every year, it defeats almost everyone. And that’s the point.

“You don't become something different by staying the same,” he tells Sam. “You gotta come apart to be rebuilt.”

The Philosophy of Failure

Laz believes we’ve become too obsessed with success — the photo finish, the win-at-all-costs mindset. But failure, he argues, is where the gold is buried. The Barkley exists to strip away the masks, the comfort, and the illusion of control.

“Out here, the mountain doesn’t care about your CV,” he says. “You either adapt, or it breaks you.”

It’s a radical countercultural idea: design something so hard, so absurd, that success isn’t the point. Transformation is.

What It Means to Choose Hard Things

Why do people show up to Barkley year after year, knowing full well they’ll probably fail? It’s because something inside them needs it. That ritual of confronting the edge. The refusal to stay soft.

This is a conversation for anyone who’s ever wondered: “Have I truly been tested?” Whether you’re a founder, a leader, or just someone staring down the next big life step, Laz’s mindset is a masterclass in stepping into the unknown — willingly.

It’s not about sadism. It’s about rebirth. The Barkley is a crucible. Laz is just the man who stokes the fire.

Lessons for Founders, Leaders and Misfits

• Make peace with failure: It’s not the enemy. It’s the path.
• Challenge reveals character: Pressure doesn't create cracks — it exposes what’s underneath.
• Design difficulty intentionally: Whether you're building a business, a body or a better life — don’t optimise for ease. Optimise for honesty.
• Detach from outcome: The best journeys aren’t about finishing. They’re about who you become trying.

This is one of the most potent interviews Sam’s ever done — raw, grounded, and guaranteed to stay with you long after it ends.

Behind the Smoke and Beard: Who Is Laz?

Chain-smoking. Bearded. Grinning like a fox. Lazarus Lake doesn’t care for trends or tech. He’s part cowboy, part monk, part mischief-maker. From small-town Tennessee, he built a global cult by saying one thing clearly: “I will show you who you are.”

He’s as comfortable quoting Nietzsche as he is mocking Garmin watches. And yet, for all the chaos, his events offer clarity. A way to purge ego, self-delusion, and distraction — replaced by resilience, self-awareness, and a kind of brutal grace.

Listen to the Full Conversation

🎧 Listen to Lazarus Lake on the Podcast

This episode is for the doers, the dreamers, the disrupters — and anyone ready to trade comfort for clarity.

About Lazarus Lake

Lazarus Lake (aka Gary Cantrell) is the infamous race director behind the Barkley Marathons, Big’s Backyard Ultra, and Vol State. His races are infamous for absurd rules, near-impossible odds, and a deep commitment to redefining what the human body and mind can endure. Through his unorthodox methods, he has sparked a global movement of athletes chasing the truth through suffering.

FAQ

Who is Lazarus Lake?

Gary Cantrell, better known as Lazarus Lake, is an American ultramarathon race director known for designing some of the world’s most extreme endurance events.

What are the Barkley Marathons?

A 100+ mile ultramarathon in Tennessee designed to test the physical, mental, and emotional limits of runners. Most years, no one finishes.

Where can I listen to the episode?

sampenny.com/brave hosts the full interview and more from the Bravery Digest series.